Today we will look at the real meaning of John 17:5. This verse is a very difficult one to understand, and speculating on it can lead us into all sorts of doctrinal problems. But, let’s first look at the verse in question:
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Which “glory” did the Messiah have with YAHUAH before the world was?
Interestingly, some people even use this verse to say that Yahusha is YAHUAH, thinking that splendour (glory) was that he was the Father before the beginning of time.
So, we have to look at similar usage of the term “before the world was” in order to figure out what Yahusha actually meant. Here is one in the book of 2 Timothy.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in HaMashiach Yahusha before the world began,
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Yahusha HaMashiach, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
look at that carefully and you will see that there is a very powerful section of that verse that helps to let us understand what Yahusha was saying in John 17:5:
“was given us in HaMashiach Yahusha before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Yahusha HaMashiach.”
So YAHUAH’S purpose and favour was given to us in Yahusha before the world began but is only just now manifesting with the appearance of Yahusha HaMashiach. It does not mean that it being given to us means we were literally there with YAHUAH before the beginning of time.
So. let us see it in operation again…
THE HIDDEN WISDOM ORDAINED BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of Aluah in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which Aluah ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
If we look at the meaning of ordained?
G4309
προορίζω
proorizō
pro-or-id’-zo
From G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, that is, (figuratively) predetermine: – determine before, ordain, predestinate.
Total KJV occurrences: 6
It means limited in advance, predetermined, determined before.
Hence, when it speaks about:
- was given us in HaMashiach Yahusha before the world began
- the hidden wisdom, which Aluah ordained before the world unto our glory
- the glory which I had with thee before the world was
It was referring to what was predewtermined before the world began; and don’t worry, we are going to give you proof.
Significantly, the Bible does not give us a picture of Yahusha before the beginning of time. Neither does the Apocrypha. However, there is one book that does, and this is the book of Enoch.
Sadly, due to the influence of Christianity, many people have neglected books like the book of Enoch as “not being canonical.” However, we did a podcast looking at whether or not the book of Enoch was actually legitimate. You may check it out here.
But there is plenty of evidence as to its legitimacy. We are sitting here saying it is not canonical, but our forefathers (the children of Yasharal) actually held it in high esteem. Let’s look at some evidence.
ENOCH IN THE TESTAMENT OF THE PATRIARCHS
The Testament of the Patriarchs is a powerful book giving the testimony of the 12 sons of Jacob before their death. You may download it from our downloads page here.
In this book, there are several mentions of the book of Enoch, and we will give you all of four witnesses.
Testament Of Simeon
5:4 For I have seen in a copy of the Book of Enoch that your sons will be ruined by promiscuity, and they shall injure with a sword the sons of Lewi.Testament Of Lewi
10:5 For the house which YAHUAH shall choose shall be called Jerusalem, as the book of Enoch the Righteous maintains. (2 Enoch 55:3; Rev 21:2-3)14:1 And now, my children, I know from the writings of Enoch that in the end-time you will act impiously against YAHUAH, setting your hands to every evil deed; because of you, your brothers will be humiliated and among all the nations you shall become the occasion for scorn.
Testament Of Judah
18:1 For in the books of Enoch the Righteous I have read the evil things you will do in the last days.Testament Of Napthali
4:1 I say these things, my children, because I have read in the writing of qadosh Enoch that you also will stray from YAHUAH, living in accord with every wickedness of the gentiles/heathen and committing every torahlessness of Sodom.
THE BOOK OF ENOCH & THE MESSIAH?
There we go. But we won’t stop there. We have to show that Messiah Yahusha also used the book of Enoch in his discourses.
Matthew 5:5: “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth” is based on Enoch 5:7
Luke 6:24: “Woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation” is based on Enoch 94:8
Matthew 19:28: “Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” is based on Enoch 108:12
Luke 16:26: “Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed” is based on Enoch 22:9,11
John 12:36: “That ye may be called the children of light” is based on Enoch 108:11
And that’s not all. The book of Jude, acclaimed to be written by Yahudah, the brother of Yahusha HaMashiach?
Jude 1:14-15: Quotes Enoch 1:9, which says, “See, the Master is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone”
SO LET’S LET THE BOOK OF ENOCH CLARIFY JOHN 17:5
Consequently, when we are using the book of Enoch to now explain John 17:5, it should not be a problem at all. You may listen to the podcast to get the full teaching, including the very important detasils from the book of Enoch.
